You know how teams always say when they draft a guy, "We couldn't believe he was there?"

That was actually true when the Bengals took Texas A&M edge Cashius Howell in the second round with pick No. 41 earlier this year. They were talking a lot about Howell before the draft, and they still are.

Like the scouts, the coaches have been impressed with Howell's endless motor and relentless work ethic. He's brought them to all team spaces at Paycor Stadium, from the weight room to the classroom to the practice field. Before their top draft pick headed into the bye, Bengals.com senior writer Geoff Hobson  slowed down Howell long enough for this week's conversation.

The thoughtful Howell opens up about his doubts as a barely recruited high-schooler out of Kansas City and backup at Bowling Green, and how the resilient mindset developed watching his father play and coach hockey turned him into the reigning SEC Defensive Player of the Year.

The Conversation

GH: Your first five games in the National Football League. Your first impressions?

CH: First impressions in the league, obviously, the talent has increased a major bit, and schemes. I feel like teams really scheme up the defense, and just having more complex schemes that you as a player have to watch more film on to be able to understand what you're looking at. That's kind of what I took from the first five games is that you have to really be intentional with your film watching. Be intentional with reading your keys whenever you're actually playing the game.

GH: Have you had, in these five games, a "wow, I'm here. I'm in the NFL?"

CH: Not really anything specifically, honestly. I just try to keep the same routine going game in game out and, like I said, just being as intentional as I can focusing on the keys and just playing ball.

GH: The week before Pittsburgh, you talked about going against Aaron Rodgers. You might have been seven when he won that Super Bowl, and you were talking about playing a guy like that.

CH: That one end of the half where he's just scrambling around and I'm trying my best to get him, and he's just savvy enough to just, oh, step up, oh, step back, oh run over here. I'm like, Golly, man. So I would say that's probably one of the welcome to the NFL moments. Like, dang, you wouldn't think Aaron Rodgers at 41 or 42, or something like that, you wouldn't think he'd be like that. I'm like, wow, okay, it's next level.

GH: Joe Flacco and Josh Johnson are kids compared to him.

CH: Literally, literally.

GH: You might be the most productive guy in the league without a sack, right? You've got eight pressures, the same as T.J. Watt and Boye Mafe.  The people are pretty happy here with what you've done as a rookie, but I know you want that first one.

CH: I'm definitely happy with the things that I've done up to this point, but obviously, like I said, there's a next step to be taken, and I feel like that comes with watching film, just doing the extra things that'll just allow you to play faster, Just get a key on a snap to where you can just get off and play faster, get on the rush, get on the edge faster, and I just feel like if I continue to keep staying down and continue to keep trying to do the best that I can and do the most that I can to help me see the defense and see the offense, then I feel like it'll play out in my favor.

GH: Break down your last game. Break down what you did down in Miami. I think you guys did what you wanted to do. You wanted to make (Dolphins quarterback Malik Willis) throw from the pocket. He got out a couple times, but for the most part, I think you guys did what you wanted to do, right?

CH: Yeah, yeah. Going into that game, you just wanted to make sure he threw from the pocket and threw from the well. Obviously, a couple of rush lanes got messed up a few times, but for the most part I feel like we were able to contain him and allow for the defense to play (well) and allow for the team to go get the win.

GH: You're known for the chip on your shoulder. How was it for you to fall to the second round? I know they were having a party in here when they got you at 41. But what was going through your mind?

CH: You know, it wasn't really ever about the first, second round. It would have been cool to go first round, it's just a blessing to even go second round. If you just look where I've come from and how far I've came, a lot of doubt, a lot of overlookings on me early on in my, high school and college careers. But like I said, in those moments, in those times, I remember it wasn't even about first or second round. Like it was about, am I even going to make it to the NFL? Can I even play at this level? So the fact that I made it second round, like man, like 41 top 41 … I was like 2,000th best player in my class to top 41. I'm taking it.

GH: You weren't even recruited for the big time out of Kansas City.

CH: No. I didn't have any Power Five offers or anything like that. So just going from that to top 41, bro, I'll take it. Like I said, I have faith in God and His plan for me, and I'm just His vessel.  I'm just allowing Him to take over my life, and whatever happens happens.

GH: I think it was a link to your dad's hockey career that got you to Bowling Green out of high school.

CH: Honestly, it was kind of crazy how we both played in the MAC. It was pretty cool.

GH: You've got that chip on your shoulder, obviously, but you probably got it from your dad.

CH: Yeah, for sure.

GH: Your dad was a high school hockey player in Kansas City, but at a time when there weren't a lot of black hockey players, right?

CH: Facts.

GH: Never mind hockey players from Kansas City. And he didn't get much recruitment, right?

CM: So yeah, I definitely think I probably got that chip on my shoulder from him, and my mom had something to do with it, too. But I feel like my dad definitely was the main reason why I am the man I am today, and I really appreciate him.

GH: He played (hockey) at Miami University up the road here. He was on a club team that won the national championship, and he became a youth hockey coach in Kansas City.

CH: For the Jets. I remember that.

GH: He told me he gave you skates for Christmas. Six years old maybe.

CH: Yep.

GH: It didn't really take with you, did it?

CH:  No. To this day I know how to skate really (well)  and I could go and skate real fast, but like that hockey stuff, it just wasn't for me. It was a little bit too much going on. Then I broke my arm at the first or second hockey practice I had. I was just like, yeah, I'm good off of this, honestly.

GH: But you spent your time in rinks because you would watch him.

CH: Yeah, yeah, from a very young age. He was coaching the Jets, and then he would do his little leagues and whatnot.

GH: He would play in the men's leagues?

CH: Yeah, I was in the rink a lot growing up that I remember, so I'm very familiar with it. I can say I can skate pretty fast and whatnot, but playing hockey, it wasn't for me, bro. It wasn't for me.

GH: I think you bring a hockey player's mentality to the position. I mean, somehow you got his mentality. Was it from hanging around the rinks when you were a kid?

CH: I think that has something to do with it. Just being around some of his players. Getting to talk with them and just seeing kind of the vibes. I feel like that definitely allowed me to just kind of take over this persona that I have today.

GH: How do you think the hockey player vibe is different from the football player? Is it different or is it the same?

CH: It's different in different aspects.  Hockey is more kind of like blue-collar vibes. Not as flashy. Not as out in the open. Whereas football, I feel like we've kind of transitioned into where it's still blue-collar vibes, but it's more flash and like, oh, I'm going to show this off. Like, I've made it this far, I'm going to wear this chain. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to go on social media and do this.

And I feel like hockey players have less of a social media type of persona presence compared to football players.

GH: I get the sense you're more of a hockey player. Are you a social media guy?

CH: I mean. I'm on social media. I'm a young guy, but not as much as some of the other people. But I'm on social media, though.

GH: You don't strike me as a flashy guy. Your  personality kind of matches your game.

CH: I like nice things. I like to have nice things, but I don't like to make that the overarching thing about my life. Like, hey, look at me, I have these things. I feel like there's better things to be known for than just materialistic things.

GH: Like what?

CH: Character. The way you treat people. Just your empathy that you have for others. Just the type of overall person that you are. The type of person that people remember you as. Not just the sport that you played, or the car that you drove, or the type of grill or chain that you had.

But how did you impact other people whenever you're around them? Did you have a positive impact? Did you help them get close to God? Did you just help them in whatever way that you could as being just children of God? And just wanted to help our neighbor out? How did you impact others? And I feel like that's more important to me in my life than, necessarily, just materialistic things. Oh, I have this.

GH: I think that probably comes from … you didn't get recruited out of Kansas City. Kind of a long shot deal at Bowling Green, right? Have a great career at Bowling Green. Make the next move. Nobody's expecting you to be the SEC Defensive Player of the Year. You are. Nobody expects you to be a draft pick. You're the 41st player taken in the country. How low did it go? Was it low at Bowling Green. Was it low at A&M at all? How much of a longshot was it?

CH: Oh, it was a very, very long shot. Especially those probably first two years at Bowling Green. Those were very tough years for me. I would say probably some of the toughest years I ever experienced to this day.

GH: Why?

CH: Just a lot of different factors that played into me kind of questioning the life that I was given. I kind of had to do a lot of soul searching from a young adult, young adolescent age, and just really had to kind of figure out, man, things kind of aren't necessarily going your way. But how are you going to respond to that, and how are you going to cope with that? And I felt like  early on in my adolescent years, I didn't necessarily respond in the right way and cope with the right way.

That was, I guess, not the first real adversity, but in the sport of football, that was probably like the first, oh wow. I wouldn't even say that was the first adversity … I played B team my freshman year. It was just a lot of factors that played into it.

GH: You were on the B team freshman year at Bowling Green?

CH: No, no, no. High school. That was probably my first adversity, where it's like, okay, wait, am I as good as I think?

GH: How did you keep going?

CH: God. Like I said, I did a lot of soul searching, and what really helped me was recognizing that God had been there for me for a very long time. At the time, it didn't really feel like that I had gotten far just because of all the negative things that were happening at the time. But now that I can look back and reflect, it was only God that was the reason I even made it that far.

If God didn't have His presence on me and on my life and do the divine things that He did to allow me to get to that moment in my life, then I don't know where I'll be. So just recognizing the silver lining in things.

GH: What were the negative things? Not getting noticed?

CH: I had a lot of family issues coming out of college, just was dealing with some family issues, and yeah, just being overlooked, and just trying to …  you know,  you're 18 years old. You're just trying to figure out what your life could potentially look like. Whenever it doesn't really look clear in your mind of what your life could look like _it could look like this one way, but it could look on the completely opposite way like this _ so it just leads you to question a little bit.

GH: Did you ever run second team at Bowling Green or were you pretty much the man?

CH: No, no, no. And that was another thing. They told me I was going to come in and play, but obviously I didn't come in and just play. They had those six-year COVID guys. I was 18 trying to battle with a guy that's been in three different schools.

GH: Have you got the sack dance planned or a celebration? Here we are. We spend all this time about being a blue-collar, non-flashy guy. Will you do a celebration?

CH:  I might. I just kind of want to get to that point first, and whatever kind of happens, it'll happen. Just kind of let my body do whatever my body feels is necessary.

GH: How have Mafe and Dexter (Lawrence II) helped you?

CH: They've helped me a lot. They've been great vets, and have really helped give me the information that has really helped me.

GH: Anything one thing they've said you really kept in mind?

CH: No, not really. Just different things, not anything really specific, just different pieces of advice that can help me on and off the field.